E480: Petra Ford - "Foundations For the Obedience Competition"

Transcription

Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods. Today we'll be talking to Petra Ford about foundations for competition. Hey, Petra, welcome back to the podcast.

Petra Ford: Hi everybody. Hi, Melissa. Thanks for having me again. Absolutely excited to chat about this.

Melissa Breau: So to start us out, you want to remind everybody a little bit kind of about who you are, who your dogs are.

Petra Ford: Yep. So my main sport is competition obedience. Although I have been doing rally and my dogs and I have been having a lot of fun with that and we've been doing on nose work and we're all loving that as well.

I have two dogs currently. Zayna, she is ten and a half. She thinks she's five. Fortunately she just got a clean bill of health orthopedically because I was getting worried. But. And she's, but she is like adamant that she is not ready to retire. Even though I'm like, you can retire any day. She's like, no. So fortunately she can go as long as she wants. Zesty is six.

So they're both, you know, my primary, they're both competing in obedience rally. We just got up to excellent and nose work. They both are entered in their first NW2 this weekend and next weekend and we were just talking about it next Friday. I am picking up my puppy. Finally. I need another dog. I am not busy enough.

Melissa Breau: I am super excited for puppy videos and puppy pictures and all the things.

Petra Ford: Oh, there will be lots of puppy pictures, lots of puppy videos and lots of puppy clips in my upcoming class and classes because, yeah, the goal is to tape as much as possible.

Melissa Breau: Yeah, of course. So I wanted to talk about foundations today. So when you hear the word foundations in dog training, you know, what do you think people sometimes maybe misunderstand or kind of get wrong about what it actually means versus how you tend to use it?

Petra Ford: Yeah. Well, I think most people think of foundations as what you do at the beginning only. Right. So big young dog, a puppy or a dog new to the sport or the handler is new to the sport. Forked. Right. But I. Well, so first of all, I divide foundations into foundations with respect to the handler and foundations with respect to the dog and then found anyone that has done a sport or a skill, right?

Anything that's a skill, but even really business, anything that you develop over time, if you really are good at it, you will always go back to foundations. So you will listen to professional athletes always talking about fundamentals. Fundamentals. That's foundations. That's what they're talking about, right? Like, the most successful superstars, like Michael Jordan, like, what did they do? They spend hours just throwing baskets. Throwing baskets, right? The most basic fundamental skill, right?

Stand here, throw the ball in the basket. Doesn't matter how many championship rings you have. This is what we do, right? So fundamentals are something I revisit as a. Well, I keep tabs on maintaining to a high level as a handler across the board. Fundamentals are something that I revisit with my dogs all the time, throughout their career, forever, and quite frequently not like once a month or, you know, here or there, like, routinely.

There are different fundamental skills that we're constantly reviewing because that's what maintains competency, confidence, and it makes. Confidence creates attitude, right? Like, if you're confident in something and you're like, yep, I'm really good with this. Competence creates confidence. Confidence creates a good attitude, right? Like, I want to do this because I'm really good at it. I enjoy it. I know how to do it. Like, let me add it.

So I've heard you say that, you know, experienced trainers can revisit foundations with, you know, quote, unquote, more experienced eyes. So what does that mean? I mean, I think you talked about a little bit in the last answer, but can you talk a little more about that? And then what does that actually look like in practice? Well, so I think it really comes down to criteria, right? Having super, super high criteria.

And it gets a little. People often mistake criteria for, like, being strict or being tough on the dog. To me, it's just clarity, right? This is correct. This is not correct. And for a dog, dogs love that, because that's correct. Crystal clear. It's either this or that, and that's it, right? No, gray. It's very clear. So my criteria is very high. When I send my dog to the go out, I know exactly what I want it to look like.

I want my dog to run as fast as they can to the end of the ring until I say sit. When I say sit, I want them to respond promptly. Sit quickly. Look at me, ready to take my jump cue, right? So let's say I'm in the ring or I'm training and I send the dog, and I'm like, he's not running as hard as he can, right? So I will notice that right away.

Now he will be running. He's cantering, right? But I can see that if I don't do something sooner rather than later, that behavior is going to degrade. So I'm going to get in there and I'm going to do some foundational things, which is games. Having my dog run out to the go out, for example. Right. Or if my dogs dropped fast, but like not quite as fast as normal, I'm going to go in and do some drop games.

Right. Which is how I taught it. Drop games, drop games, drop games. So I will catch that early. Less experienced people will maybe not catch it until it's kind of broken. Right. Or falling apart, which is not wrong. It's just they're not as experienced. But really it just comes down to criteria. They're inadvertently accepting lesser criteria for a length of time until it degrades more and more. So as soon as I feel like something is potentially starting to degrade, I go right back to foundations.

And honestly, a lot of times I do review fundamentals before things even degrade, because if I can prevent that, then I'm just maintaining everything at a higher level the entire time. And it's not even getting to that point. Ideally.

Melissa Breau: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Kind of thinking about that, you know, if criteria is kind of that key, important piece, you know, how much of ultimately having a good performance, you know, comes down to the handler being really clear and clear enough for the dog to really understand what it is they're being asked to do. Like, how much are those two things linked?

Petra Ford: Clarity. It's if you think about. First of all, if you think about a relationship with human to human. Right. Who do you have good relationships with? Well, people you communicate well with. Right. Like, if there's always at least one person in our lives, often a family member or someone we work with, where we don't have good communication with them. Right.

And that's always a challenging relationship. So it's the same with the dog. If I have really good, clear communication with the dog, I'm going to have a good relationship. If I have a good relationship and if I'm clear with my information, my dog's going to learn more quickly and my dog's going to be more confident. And obviously that's going to transfer to the ring. A huge part of that is our us mastering foundational skills as handlers.

Right. So I joke about this. Like every single one of my classes, week one in the lectures will say something about marking. And I swear I don't think anybody reads it or they just skim it because they think they're marking correctly and inevitably constantly reminding people about their marking, Right. Why is that? Because they never mastered the skill to the point of them not having to think about it.

Right. And in dog training, there's so much going on simultaneously. Like, we have to mark, we have to watch how many errors there are. We have to have a strategy for handling errors. We have to be able to break behaviors down. We have to watch what we're doing with our body, read the dog. Like we're trying to do all these things at the same time. And then we end up with cognitive overload.

Like, our brains just overloaded it can't do all of it. And so we're kind of okay at a whole bunch of things, but we don't just completely master our footwork or completely master our body and what our body is telling the dog, or completely master our marking. So if we take the time to master these individual skills one at a time, right? Because if you're trying to master them all at once, you won't be able to do it.

Your brain's going to explode, right? So take one, focus on it for three, four, five weeks, master it so you no longer need to think about it, then pick the next thing, master that. Right? And then for each thing that you master, you're going to have more brain space available that you're going to be able to focus on other things. So that makes you a better trainer in the moment.

And also in the meantime, you're a much better communicator with your dog. You're much more clear, you're much less confusing, your success rate is higher, your dog's less stressed out, and it's just because you are finally taking the time to make sure that you master all these individual, foundational skills that we really need to have and that we really shouldn't have to think about when we're training our dogs.

So, in part, I think that answers what I was going to ask you next, but I. But maybe there's a little bit of nuance here. So, you know, you're talking about, you know, marking and footwork and pieces like that. So how do, like timing, which is obviously part of marking, you know, movement, which is obviously part of the footwork thing, and, you know, reinforcement really work together to create that smooth picture of teamwork or that thing that, you know, where we watch it in the ring and we go, wow, you know, Right.

And that's because if you this, if you. So starting at the back end, right? If you're looking at the smooth end picture, it's because we've mastered a lot of things, so I do not need to think about my footwork. It's automatic. It just happens. It happens the exact same way every time. I don't need to think about what cues I give my dog. They're automatic. I don't need to think about what I do with my body.

It's exactly the same every time. It requires zero thought. I don't have to think about choreographing my routine. I don't have to think about. So when I go in the ring, the only thing I need to think about is just staying in the moment, executing my job, which is just automatic, and paying attention to my dog, right? And I can read my dog and I can give. React to that dog.

I can give it supporting information moment by moment by moment, which other people can't do because they're thinking about their footwork, what to do with their hands, where they're supposed to go set their dog up. They're looking at the judge. They're looking at where they should go. They're like, oh, God, why isn't my dog with me? Because all these other pieces are not automatic, right? And that's what I'm really trying to impress upon my students right now, is if you just take one thing at a time and it's not sexy and it's not exciting and it's not fun.

Like, trust me, practicing my footwork in front of my house, in the street with a toy in my hand mimicking the dog, right? Is kind of weird. And then every time a car comes, I pretend I'm going to my mailbox, and then I go back out. I practice without my dog, right? Like, that's what I did way back in the day until I. I didn't have to think about my footwork anymore, right?

Because. But I did that without the dog and people, they want to train their dog. But yet if you master that, if you just take the time to do that, you're going to be. Your dog's going to be so much happier and you're going to be so much more clear, right? So if you master all these individual skills, take the time out to mash them. It's the same with marking, right?

Like my marker system and my reinforcement. So, so how am I delivering the reinforcer? Where am I storing it, right? Like, am I always feeding fronts with my right hand? Well, guess what? My dog's going to be crooked because it's going to start to head in with the head towards my right hand. How much reinforcement am I giving. What is the purpose of my reinforcer? Right. Like, every time I reinforce, there's a reason for it.

I'm not just giving my dog a cookie, inserting praise between my reinforcement. So like a lot of trainers, again, because their brain is overloaded. Click, cookie, click, cookie, Mark, cookie, mark, cookie, mark, cookie, Right. No. Or not even Mark, as you're giving the cookie right, there should be, like, space face. But mark. Wow, buddy, look at you. That was so good. Super, buddy. I love that. Then cookie.

Now you're adding value for your praise. And now when I use that praise in the ring, it holds value to my dog because I've been inserting it in training constantly. But again, if your brain is overloaded or if you're not consciously saying, I must and insert this here, it falls by the wayside. So, yeah, that smooth finished picture where timing, reinforcement. What was the other thing you said?

Handling, movement, all are in sync together. It's because that handler took the time to master each individual piece, and they maintain that forever. Like, I get a new dog, I have to change my footwork for that dog. I master the footwork for that dog. I don't just get lazy and go, well, I did it for the other dog. I'm not going to do it for this dog, you know, Or I check in with myself constantly.

Are you still doing your marking correctly? Are you reinforcing to the best of your ability? Are you using your body correctly? Revisiting my foundations, making sure that I'm maintaining that. Um, I have to say, I'm pretty amused to think of your neighbors being like, man, pager checks are mail like, 18 times a day. Well, they moved out shortly after. Maybe they thought you were trying to stop what is doing.

No, I drew a figure eight, like, with spray paint on my street, which I'm like, I don't even know if that's legal. And I used to, like, do my figure eight footwork and like, my. Yeah, it was crazy. But, you know, whatever, it works.

Melissa Breau: Funny. That's so funny. So I want to transition a little bit from talking about the handler foundations to the dog foundation. So how do you distinguish when you're looking at a dog, you know, who doesn't understand. How do you distinguish between a dog who just, like, doesn't understand the thing well enough. Right. And a dog who maybe is struggling to perform it under pressure, but they kind of do know the skill. It's just a really hard situation.

Petra Ford: Well, I mean, if you take the dog and put it in an easy situation, can they do the skill. Right. If they can't do it in an easy situation, like where you normally train, then they don't understand the skill well enough.

Right. Even if you think they should know it, they don't if they're not doing it right. So that's the easiest way to tell. Right. So if I'm at a trial or if I'm at a store, my dog is struggling, and I'm like, huh? Is it the skill or is it the distraction or the pressure? Just do it at home. Can my dog do it here? Oh, look, he's doing it beautifully.

All right, well, then I can surmise it's distraction. Right. And then I can tweak out if I want to, or, you know, is it the judge or is it the environment? Well, let me add a judge to the picture. Does my dog struggle now? No. All right, how about let me take out the judge. Let me add distractions. Oh, now my dog struggles. Okay. It's the distractions. So that's kind of what I do.

I just pull it out, check the skill in isolation. Well, first I checked my handling, make sure my handling was correct. Then I check the skill. Is it the dog performing it? You know, the way they. I expect them to? If, yes, then I start adding pressure, distraction, and start narrowing it down that way.

Melissa Breau: I have to tell you. So just because it's literally that happened this week. But speaking of knowing a skill and a dog sometimes surprising you about what they do or do not know that you think they know. I learned very thoroughly this week in taking a local obedience class that Huey does not know how to heal on leash. He can heal beautifully. If I want to take his leash off, put the leash on, and he's like, nose to the ground, doesn't know how to make a turn.

Like, that was an interesting thing to learn. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's such a great example because to us, what some. What something that's so minor, like, dude, all I did was put the leash on. But dogs are so contextual and they're so relying on pictures. Right. That if we change one tiny thing, they're confused. Yeah. You know, and. And then people get frustrated because they're like, you know, dog, what's wrong with you?

Because from a human perspective, all we did was just change this one thing or, you know, but we have to always look at things from the dog's perspective, and they view the world very differently than we do, and we need to always be aware of that. And, you know, like, it doesn't matter how well trained the dog is. Like, recently Zesty's articles, like scent articles, completely fell apart.

Like, completely. Like, he couldn't find an article to save his life. Then he started, like, displacement sniffing and everything, right? So I can stand there and go, come on, you know this. Or I can just go, I don't know what happened, but clearly right now he has no idea what he's doing, right? So what do I do? Go right back to how I taught it. This is how I taught it.

Let's go back to basics. Let's go back to the G. Let's just review. Let's just build back up to where you were. And okay, now you're back, right? Like, that happens all the time with dogs. Like, the most experienced dogs, they get confused. Something happens, things fall apart. Sometimes we know why, sometimes we don't. Doesn't matter, you know, Go back, just stop saying they know it just they don't in that moment, break it down, Go back to the beginning, revisit it.

You'll go through the steps really quickly, but now you're building the dog's confidence up. Yeah. So I think a lot of times we kind of like throw around this word resilience, but maybe it's not quite as clear exactly how it applies when we're talking to a competition dog, right? Like, do you assume it's just a matter of teaching skills or pressure? So tell me, what does resilience actually look like in a competition dog?

The ability to push through. That's my definition, right? Like, not fall apart. So if my dog is resilient, like, so, first and foremost, let's be crystal clear. I don't care how good of a trainer you are, how well you train, how positively you train, competition is hard. It's meant to be hard. It's artificial. It's supposed to be hard, right? So you are putting your dog under pressure. When the dog is under pressure, what happens?

Does it fall apart? And I don't mean completely fall apart. I mean, it could just freeze, right? Stand there and do nothing. When people say, oh, he did nothing, no, the dog in that moment is like, oh, God, I don't know what to do. That's what's happening, right? They're panicking or they move or they make a mistake or whatever the case, right? The dog, or something unusual happens, which I've been doing this for decades, and guess what?

I still go to trials and unusual things that something happens that's never happened before still happens, right? You can't prepare for everything. Your dog has to be able to go, okay, who. This is hard, but I can do it right. And not fall apart, that they can push through and do it anyway. And we have to teach that some dogs are innately a bit more resilient than others.

But if you take a competition where they purposefully make things hard, right. You must teach your dog how to be resilient. Otherwise, your dog, in my opinion, is not prepared. You didn't give it the skill set to handle the stress or the challenges of the ring. Right? So I want to teach my dog that when things get hard, you can do it, right? Like, you know what to do.

You can do this. And I want my dog to feel really confident in that situation. Like, mm, throw it at me. I got this, right? I know what to do. I think a lot of times somebody may hear that advice and be like, yes, absolutely.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. And then what they do is they put their dog in a situation where their dog maybe isn't really ready for what they're trying to do.

Right. So can you talk a bit about the difference between asking a dog to push through something difficult, you know, build that resilience and asking them to work through something that they're just not ready for?

Petra Ford: Yeah. I mean, I think you. If you're really not sure, a way to tell is, like, your dog should not be failing over and over, right? So I think the trend for a while, I don't know if it's still there, but it, you know, it went way too far to, the dog should never make a mistake.

Because if it never makes a mistake, well, what happens when it makes a mistake? Not gonna know what to do, right? Like, and it's gonna make a mistake in the ring. Like, it's gonna happen. So I don't have a problem with dogs making mistakes, because for me, as a learner, I learn a tremendous. I learn a lot from my mistakes. Like, stop. Let me make the mistake. Let me process the information, and then give me feedback, and then I will improve upon that.

Right? So if my dog makes a mistake and I give it information or a little bit of help, and then my dog succeeds, right? Like, I think that's really valuable. Like, or my dog goes out, it kind of mucks it up, and I'm just like, it's all right. Don't worry about it. Let's try that again. And then my dog does it. I think that's incredibly valuable. If my dog fails and fails and fails.

Right? Well, then that's a red flag. Then I'm like, oh, shoot, that was too hard. All right, sorry, buddy. Let me make it a little easier, right? How about now? I simplified it a little bit more. Can you. So the challenge is less. Can you do it now? Okay, I can do it now, right? So I want my dog. I do want my dog. Not every session, not all the time, but with a fair amount of frequency to struggle a little bit, right?

And then work through that. Because, man, does that build confidence. And with gosh, sometimes I'm like, why does it take so long to learn things? Like, you know, historically, it's like, teach your dogs everything until it's fluent in a clean environment so that they know it really well. Then start adding challenges. But then you add challenges and the dog's like, kind of like we talked about with the leash.

The dog's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You completely change the picture. Yeah. So now what I've been doing with students and like my training partners is day one, it's, you're going to train your puppy right here with all the other dogs. You're going to train your puppy right here with all this stuff on the floor. You're going to train your puppy with my old dog wandering around. And when I tell you the difference in these dogs, it is mind boggling.

Like, they don't get freaked out. They're amazing problem solvers. They're what I would say, resilient. They make a mistake. They don't have a meltdown. They're like, okay, I'll try again. When things get hard, you see them, like, focus harder. And they taught that to themselves, which is absolutely to me, fascinating, right? Like my friend's dog, my training partner, it was like under a year old and we would like, I'm doing something by the end, all of a sudden, I see the dog go, oh, she's doing something.

And the dog leaned in and was like, looking at mom like, I am not taking my eyes off you. I was like, holy cow. This dog just put that together on its own, Right? The problem is, as humans, we have this weird tendency to micromanage, to constantly jump in there. This makes a mistake. Oh, my God, it's gonna broke it. You know, Help the dog. Help the dog.

Simplify immediately. Well, all you're doing is becoming an enabler. And then the dog goes, oh, God, this is hard. So it freezes and it goes, help me. Because that's what you've taught it. It's hard. You're not sure I will help you, right? So finding that line of not making it so hard that the dog is overwhelmed But I find that the vast majority of people are doing the opposite.

They're. I'm having. I have such a hard time getting them to stop micro managing constantly. You know, I'm like, just back off. Let them be free. Let them figure it out. You know, like, my friend's puppy was at, like, training class at a, you know, school. So it was outside the rings. So she sends it, it runs to the mat, it runs back, she sends it to the mat, it runs to the mat, it gets distracted, it goes, like, wandering away, right?

Not in a dangerous way, but just. She does nothing. All of a sudden, the puppy whips its head around, goes, wait a minute, I was doing something, Looks at the mat, runs to the mat. I'm on the mat. And after that, ran to the mat, ran to the mat, ran to the mat. So if you had interfered, which would be our instinct, right? Oh, puppy, puppy, come back, come back.

Mat, mat, mat. You stole that opportunity for the puppy to solve that problem on its own. And when I'm getting my students to let this happen, obviously within the realm of safety, and obviously, the dog shouldn't be failing catastrophically over and over, right? It's. It's pretty amazing how these dogs are turning out. So I'm super excited to do this with my puppy, you know, and hopefully I can get a fair amount of it on video, because I really, really, like, this is something that I think is super, super important that is not addressed enough at all in preparing our dogs for competition.

So sometimes we think we've done all the things, right? We think we've done all the bits and pieces, right? And we go and enter competition, and then it just kind of falls apart anyway. So why do behaviors that look, you know, totally solid in training things look fantastic sometimes then, you know, fall apart when we're actually in the ring? Well, because most dogs know the behaviors, most people have trained the behaviors, right?

The problem for a sport like obedience, especially also something like rally, is the barrier to entry is high, because just knowing the behaviors is not enough. You also have to understand how to work with pressure, meaning pressure from barriers, pressure from the environment, pressure from the judge. The dog also has to know how to work around distractions, and it has to be able to do that for a sustained amount of time.

So imagine working on, like, a complex table task on your computer at Starbucks at lunchtime. Hard, right? And that's what you're asking your dog to do for, like, seven, eight, nine minutes, multiple times, right? There's chaining, there's the dog putting together behavior after behavior, chain after chain for seven to nine minutes with no reinforcement. Now, it's not a matter of, oh, my dog's only working if there's cookies involved.

No, the cookies are information. Their information that say to the dog, you're correct. Take that information away. Don't tell the dog they're correct. What does the dog think, I'm wrong. I must be doing something wrong. Oh, God, what am I doing wrong? And then they start to lose confidence, and they really start to struggle. Right? So chaining, working a long time without a reinforcer and understanding that that means you're correct, you're going to get a big jackpot.

You're not wrong, Right? The handler doing their job. Because, boy, does an alien take over our bodies. When we go in the ring and we think we're doing everything correctly, right? And I'm like, no. And like, handlers send me videos in the ring, like, of themselves in the ring. And I'm like, you're healing and you're not even looking at your dog. I'm not. Oh, you're right, dude. Look at the video.

You're not looking at your dog. When you train, you always look at your dog. So from your dog's perspective, apples and oranges, they don't know what that means. It's confusing. So that's where the foundation of. If you develop really good habits in training. Like, the way I handle my dogs in training, 100% of the time is so ingrained that that is what I do in the ring, because it's a habit.

But if you're not consistent with that in training, you won't be consistent with that in the ring. You need to have your transitions, your ring entrances, your setups. All that needs to be choreographed. It needs to be fluent. Your part needs to be, you know, memorized and perfected, and the dog has to be taught those pieces. There are exercises that should be trained more than your regular exercises.

So there are all these other pieces that need to be in place. So sometimes people will email me, yeah, I'm having trouble. And I'm like, well, do you have. And I give this list that I just gave. And I always feel a little bad because I'm like, oh, boy, here we go. And they're like, oh, I guess I won't be ready for another year, you know? Cause they think, like, I just have to teach the exercises, and then my dog can do it in the ring.

And. Yeah. And I proof everything. I add challenges to everything. So I make everything really, really hard and only then do I feel like you can do it in the ring. Right. So that's the big challenge. There are. There are always some, some, or all or one of those pieces is missing. And that's why you're. There's a disconnect between. Between what you're getting in training and what you get in the ring.

If, you know a team keeps having the same problem in competition, how do you decide whether what they need is more practice on that exercise? Maybe it's the chaining piece, or maybe it's the transitions piece, or maybe it's just line of duration of focus, as you were talking about. Or if they need to go back and strengthen something kind of underneath the behavior. I think it's kind of like break it down and rebuild it and then see where it falls apart.

Right. So again, I always kind of go. I always start with me, my handling. Right. Like, I always make sure my handling is correct first. Right. In training and in the ring, like, was it correct? Right. So I do my handling. My dog does it perfectly. Okay. It's not, you know, and I did my handling fine. Then I look at the behavior, like I mentioned earlier, in isolation, in training, in my house.

Is it solid here? Okay, good. Okay. How about when I add the judge pressure or how about when I do it against a gate or a barrier? Does it fall apart? Now, then I can say it's a pressure issue. Does it fall apart with distraction and so on? So I just kind of. I always start at the beginning, and if it's weak, if the behavior, in and of itself it's weak, you'll see it right away because you'll do it in your house and you'll, you know, give the down signal.

Dog doesn't down immediately. Oh, okay, Let me fix that. Right. So it's just kind of isolate the different components. All those components are solid. Okay. Try putting it in a chain. Try making it the third exercise. So ring entrance. Two exercises. Make it the third. Oh, now it falls apart. Oh, it's because of the chain.

Melissa Breau: Yeah. Right. So that's how I kind of break it apart. When you are kind of watching other teams in competition, you know what might tell you that?

Petra Ford: Yeah, that team's got a really strong foundation, even if, you know, maybe their performance isn't perfect. Right. I mean, I think most teams have a relatively decent foundation in terms of the dog knowing the exercises. Right. Handling wise, I can usually tell based on the dog, how the dog reacts to the handling. Right. So if they. And I can just tell if it looks jerky. Or if it looks choreographed and smooth, right?

Then I can say, yeah, I'll, you know, the handler will do something like, come on, buddy, let's go. And if the dog goes, oh, God. And dips their head, I'll say, that doesn't happen in training because the dog's going, I have no idea what that means and you're stressing me out, right? So the dog will tell you that it's a matter of just reading the dog, right?

What's happening first and how does the dog react? So if the handler does some sort of handling and the dog goes, oh, God, I'm confused. Or, oh, God, I'm worried, I don't understand. Then I'm like, oh, it's the handling, right? If the dog is just out and out distracted, then I can say, well, their foundation, their dog's understanding of engagement is weak, right? Because doesn't matter how well the dog knows the exercises, if it doesn't have engagement, it's not going to hold up, right?

And you can just tell because the dog's not paying attention. The dog's looking around and the handler's like, hey, dog. Hey, dog. It's not the dog's fault. Dog's not being naughty. Dog doesn't know. Dog doesn't have the ability to do that if the dog's paying attention. But it's like slow or it's like struggling or it's like, oh, God. Every time the judge comes near. Well, more than likely the dog's uncomfortable with the judge, right?

I just looked at a video recently, was very clear, like as soon as the judge moved, the dog's like, ah. Every time the judge moved, the dog's like, what are you doing? Dog's not used to the judge moving around, right? So it's cause and effect, right? What happens right before the dog does the behavior and that usually. So it's reading, the dog is uncomfortable, worried, confused, distracted, and then saying, well, what happened right before that? Okay, well, if consistently this happens and then the dog does this behavior that's causing the behavior.

Melissa Breau: So the reason we're talking about all this stuff is because you have a new class. Power, building, confidence and resilience. You're offering it in the October term. So registration's open. You know, when this goes up, people will be able to go join you. Can you share a little more about what's in the class, maybe who it's for?

Petra Ford: Yeah, there's a lot in the class because for two. Well, one is because I like, really, really passionate about this because as an instructor, you're telling your students the same thing over and over, week after week, month after month, year after year, right? So there's a whole lot about foundations for the handler, and then there's a whole lot about foundations for the dog. So basically, it could almost be like two separate classes, right?

But everyone has the course for at least a year. So, like week one, I'm saying what we talked about earlier, which is I'm giving you all the foundation skills as a handler. I want you to take one and master that. I don't care if it takes all course, because after that you can do. You don't need me. You can take the next one. It's listed right here for you, and you can go master that one.

And so it's kind of like a guidebook that you can keep and reference back to for as long as you need to. It also is a problem solver, right? Because we go through the foundations for the dogs. Like, if your dog is not comfortable leaving you, here are a bunch of games you can do that strengthen your dog's ability to move away from you, and you can strengthen that skill outside of the context of the actual sport, right?

Or your dog's not comfortable being out there while you're away from the dog. Well, we can. Here's a bunch of games to make the dog comfortable with that outside of the actual exercise, and then you can put that into the exercise. Right now you have all these foundation skills for the dog. If in two years, your dog all of a sudden has an exercise like your agility start line stay starts to fall apart, guess what?

Come back, look at the list. Oh, yeah, I can do this with my dog to get it comfortable away from me or to get it comfortable around pressure, right? Or whatever the case. So it's. It's a way, a reference guide for solving problems down the road, for increasing confidence, increasing resilience. And it's a reference guide for you as a handler, right? So that you can continue over time to improve and become a better handler.

And obviously, if you are just starting out as a handler or. Or if your dog is just starting out, right, like when I get my puppy, it will be going through all of these foundational steps, and I will be doing all of those handling things so that I can be the best teammate for my puppy, right? So that we build that strong foundation together. But regardless of how strong and solid and good the foundation is, things are still going to break apart.

And I'm still going to keep going back and revisiting all those things.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. Well, I certainly think it sounds like an awesome class and certainly one lots of us need. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast and chatting with me about the topic. No problem. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thanks everybody for listening. Absolutely. Thanks to all of our listeners and our viewers for tuning in.

We'll be back next week, this time with Kate and Christopher to talk about building both your recall and your relationship with your dog. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast either on iTunes, the podcast app of your choice, or over on YouTube to be sure you never miss an episode. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast.

Music provided royalty free by BenSound.com the track featured here is called Buddy. Audio and video editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training.

Credits

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training!