E478: Michael Shikashio - "Behind the Scenes of CANIS"

Transcript

Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast, brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods. Today we'll be talking to Michael Shakashi about the upcoming CANIS Conference. Hi, Michael. Welcome back to the podcast.

Michael Shikashio: Thanks for having me back on. It's great to be here.

Melissa Breau: Absolutely. Excited to talk a little bit. I'm certainly looking forward to the conference. So to start us out, do you want to just remind everybody a little bit kind of about who you are and maybe what and when the CANIS Conference is?

Michael Shikashio: Yeah. So the conference is October 7th to 10th in Schaumburg, Illinois. And it came about because. So a lot of the work I do, of course, is with aggression.

And some people have been to the Aggression and Dogs Conference. And then I noticed over the years more and more conferences were happening. And it was actually Jen Franco from APDT that reached out to me. She's like, you want to do something together? I'm like. I said, that's. That sounds intriguing. But then I started thinking, like, why don't we just get everybody together? So I started thinking about Denise and like all the other conferences that are out there, like, let's.

Why don't we just all get in one place? Makes it easier for people to travel to. Puts everything sort of in a collaborative effort. And also the exhibitors and so many things, so many benefits to, like doing it all in one place. So that's how the conference was born. And here we are today, about six weeks out. Super exciting. Yeah. So the last time we talked, I think we kind of talked a little bit about Kinas and a little bit about other stuff, but Kines was still largely something that was like very in the works, very something you were actively building.

Now we're getting close. So how does the reality kind of compare to what you were originally envisioning? Yeah, it's gotten much more eventful, for lack of a better word, is we've added so many things since I first envisioned it. So we were sort of thinking, you know, like, conference. And we do have that in mind with about 80 plus presentations throughout the conference. Workshops, working dog things, and then also demonstrations.

And we've added poster sessions and so all of these events, these social events too. And that's where it's really gotten much more broad than I originally envisioned. So. And that's been a challenge too. It's just finding the space and organizing Juggling all these balls has been challenging, but, yeah, it's. It's really turned. Turning into an event that I think is going to feel much different to the app, to a person that's been to a lot of conferences, this is the event that's going to feel different, I think.

Melissa Breau: So as the programs kind of come together, is there anything that you're personally really excited to experience?

Michael Shikashio: You know, what I love about conferences is when you go in person, you just get this vibe or like this feel to them, because you get to talk to everybody and see everybody in person without all the drama. Not that there's not drama at conferences, but, you know, you could say it's.

It's just a lot different. And that's what I'm so excited about, is going to be able to see everybody in the same space talking to each other, especially from all the different dog worlds that we have. So it's not just, you know, trainers, it's everybody else that we'll be talking about. But that's what I'm most excited to see. I love. I love how those conversations happen, like in the hallways, in the conference spaces, in the events.

I think that's just the best thing that can come out of it because we have so much online stuff now that it doesn't give us the opportunity to see each other face to face and really start talking, have those deep conversations.

Melissa Breau: Right. Yeah. And I feel like online you're not going to just stumble into somebody, you know, maybe that you wouldn't have met otherwise, the way that you kind of will when you're in the same space.

Michael Shikashio: Yeah. And you can't see them. You know, you're missing, like, that smile. So you, like, you might see somebody's Facebook name come across, but you don't know what their emotions like or anything like that. So being in person, seeing facial expression, seeing body language, and just, of course, you know, you're going to be nicer to somebody. Usually in person, for the most part, that makes a big difference.

Melissa Breau: Yeah. So for somebody, you know, coming to the conference from FTC and the dog sports world, what do you think that they'll find at CANIS that maybe they're not going to encounter at other conferences, training conferences they've been to?

Michael Shikashio: Yeah. And I think not just for the FDSA dog sports folks, but for everybody attending, you're gonna. You're gonna get exposure to a lot of different approaches and industry.

I don't know if I want to use the word industry. That's such a harsh word. But like people doing stuff with dogs in many different aspects of life that we don't get exposure to. If we're like in a dog training conference, right. So we have veterinaries in science there, we have sheltering. So many different views. And being able to get exposure to that is really important, I think, because you get to just strike up those conversations and learn a lot more about things that we may not typically see.

So for the dog sports folks, maybe you learn more about veterinary medicine and maybe some of the health aspects that can affect your work with dogs and in the dog sports world or the behavior challenges you might experience, you know, so things like that, that's what I'm really excited about for this conference, the exposure to things we are not used to getting out of those silos, right?

Melissa Breau: Yeah, yeah. You're bringing together behavior and training and veterinary science and sheltering and research and the dog sports stuff. So, yeah, you know, I guess, you know, what other cross pollination are you hoping is going to happen? What do you think those, those different communities are really going to learn kind of spending that time together?

Michael Shikashio: I think just what happens for me is you get like new ideas, things that make you excited, right? Because we, if, you know, if we're coasting along in our own silo or you know, like, let's say we're focusing on training all the time, or one specific aspect of training, like me for aggression, for instance, you kind of see the same faces and hear the same ideas and see, you know, you, you hear some new things and they get you excited. But what really gets you going again is to, to step outside your silo because let's face it, dogs don't exist in silos, right.

And some of them I can just envision just sitting there looking and like, what are you guys, why are you hiding over there? Why are you hiding over there in that silo? And so by doing this, you get the exposure to, you know, let's say you're veterinarian, so you're into health, right? But you get into behavior. You start seeing, oh, behavior that impacts health maybe, or the genetics or the environment or the relationships and like the dog sports and seeing the relationships between the handlers and their dogs and things like that gives you much broader perspective and I think a better understanding of dogs.

So again, just getting everybody together breaks down those silos and I think it's just going to be so much better for the dogs in general that we're all working with because we get all this new information and this exposure to it.

Melissa Breau: So. Yeah. Are there any specific conversations that you're particularly, you know, hoping that CANIS sparks, even if, you know, everybody doesn't necessarily walk away on the same page or 100% in agreement?

Yeah, and I, and I don't expect that. Of course, we all have our opinions and ideas and our backgrounds and our experiences. So. But one thing I think we, all of us, anybody working with animals or dogs should be looking at the welfare of animals. And I think that's one of the main focuses for CANIS. CANIS, by the way, stands for Canine Advocacy, Networking, Innovation and Science. So it's bringing together those.

Those sort of focuses. And in the middle of all that is welfare. Right. The welfare of dogs. Because that's something, let's face it, that gets talked a lot about in all of the industries. So sheltering and dog sports and behavior and veterinary, of course, we're always looking at welfare or should be, and we all have our own ideas about it. Right. Like, we think about it as, like, you and I might be looking at the dog sports, the behavior lens.

Right. So we may not think about welfare and the ethics of it in the same way as somebody in the veterinary world. And a lot of arguments happen because there's this misunderstanding, like, okay, this is this person's view, and this is this person's view simply because of the way the industries are built around that. So we do have a panel talk on welfare. That's our opening panel talk that is going to be focused on that topic of welfare, what it really means, and how we can do better in all of our industries by working together to promote welfare for dogs.

Evidence based is another one that comes up. Right. So what does evidence based really mean? So that's why I'm really happy to have the scientists there. So the canine science symposium that was happening every year, it was, is now part of the CANIS conference. So Dr. Lisa Gunter and her team are coming in and we've got some wonderful science speakers there. So that's, you know, again, part of the conversations.

It's like sometimes it's hard to have all of them happening in your head at the same time. Like, oh, wait, let me think through the science lens. Let me think through my sheltering lens for my behavior lens. But by doing this now, we're seeing it all in one place, and we'll see what kind of conversations happen out of it. Right. But welfare is definitely the big focus and I think a really important one, especially in this day and age. Yeah, it makes it a great topic to start with, for sure.

Melissa Breau: Yeah. Yeah. So with five tracks happening, it's a whole lot of stuff. FOMO feels a little inevitable. How do you recommend, you know, attendees approach, kind of deciding what they want to catch live, what they want to catch later on the recording, like, what room do they want to be in?

Michael Shikashio: Yeah, accept the FOMO. Like, you know, you have to understand it's going to happen.

We have more than 80 sessions happening. Five tracks happening, actually six tracks when you add. Because we have dog sports, but we have the national association from Canine Scent Work Folks coming in, so we kind of added a six track, even though they're sort of on the dog sports umbrella in a way. So we have so many things that people are going to want to see and. But you're not gonna be able to see everything, so that's why everything's gonna be recorded.

So if you want to go back and watch something. But it's kind of like. It's funny. It's like my wife is. Is like that. Like, when we go travel, she has to see everything. So she. So like, let's say we're touring around, like, I don't know, we were in Poland and we went to Krakow and like, we're. We're looking around all the sites and things. She can't miss anything.

So. And she's super efficient. She's like, all right, got this plan on this schedule. We're going to go see this and this. And by the end of the day, like, my plantar fasciitis is killing me because I'm walking so much. But she's like that. She's like, she wants to see everything. So you're not going to be able to at this conference. It's impossible to see all of the talks because a lot of them are happening at the same time, but that's okay.

So what I do recommend is people kind of step outside their typical, you know, what they typically would like to see. Try to catch like one talk a day. That it's something that you wouldn't typically go see a veterinary talk or a behavior talk if you're in the dog sports world or something that might you find of interest, but something. Because it's. It does make a difference when you're there in person.

You can kind of feel the energy of the speaker versus watching the recording. Plus you can ask questions if you have them. So I do recommend choosing at least one thing that's kind of not in your lane and. But yeah, it's. The fear of missing out is definitely Going to be there. That's not even including all the events were happening that are happening around the. The whole conference.

So. So, yeah, just explore, have a good time and, you know, pick the. Pick the talks. Pick a couple talks that are going to be outside your lane. Yeah, I still need to sit down with the schedule and really do a deep dive. I haven't done it yet. Figure out, okay, which ones are the ones I absolutely cannot miss in person. Hopefully they're not at the same times.

And then like, which ones. Which spaces am I. Do you know, do I feel a little bit lighter on. Okay, I can just pick, you know, what sounds interesting, but I'm definitely looking forward to doing that deep dive with the schedule. But, man, there's a lot of stuff in there. I've looked at it a couple times and there's a lot. The thing is that all six tracks are kind of happening at the same like.

So you won't have like overlap. Well, FDSA is actually the exception to the rule because we have two presenters going at any one time for FDSA. But. But the good thing is, like, if you probably won't get into that much of a problem because we have, you know, not like two science speakers speaking at the same time. They're all like one right after each other in that track.

So. Yeah, good stuff. So you meant you've mentioned this kind of in one of the earlier questions, but, you know, you've built some kind of unusual opportunities to encourage some of that conversation and connection that we were talking about, including things like the fire circles. So can you talk maybe a little bit more about those opportunities that are there for those in person attendees and, you know, why was that important to you?

Because to get people talking and networking, let's face it, a lot of people in the animal world are shy or introverted and it's tough to strike up those conversations. So we have to soft. Often as conference planners, we create opportunities for networking for sort of Icebreakers and things like that. So that was one of the goals. Like, let's make this fun. And when I was originally talking to all the partners in this is we're like, let's make it sort of like Lollapalooza or Coachella for dogs.

And that's kind of what it's turned into. All these different bands, right? They're coming in and we've got the jazz band and we've got the rock band and, you know, so. And that was the. To make it more fun. And that's sort of started how we started building some of these other events. So one of the things is we have the CANIS plus option. We have a few seats left for that.

But the CANIS plus is like sort of the elevated experience. And that includes. We have three activities around just that, which is the. The fire circles, which you mentioned. It's a chats with Amanda Gagnon, who's going to be facilitating talks around what you've seen at the conference, but a much more intimate setting, hot cocoa, nice comfy chairs and blankets. That kind of feel. So really just getting time to spend with other attendees, but in a way that you can.

It's sort of. They. She's going to help you through the process. If you're quiet or you don't, you're kind of shy about those things. So that's one of the things. We have Dr. Patricia McConnell, who's going to be doing a story circle where she's going to be giving a short presentation and then signing her new books. Actually, she's got a couple coming out or that have come out and.

And that's again, hors d' oeuvres in a nice cozy setting. And then we have a fun one with topgolf, if anybody's a golfer. If not, don't worry, it's topgolf. So everybody goes there, whether you. You can. You can golf or not. But that's going to be with Dr. Tim Lewis and Sonia Featherling. And it's going to be just. You're going out and having a good time at topgolf.

So it's more of a upbeat kind of situation. There is an Andretti Go Karting facility right next to the hotel. You can literally walk outside your door and go. Go Karting if you want. So there's that option as well. We have the opening reception where it's going to be more time to network and pick up your badge and all those things. But it's going to have lots of activity surrounding that.

And we have Saturday Night Fever, which is our closing event. And that I hired two comedians from Rhode island, which I went and saw, and I thought they were hilarious. I'm like, you guys have to do of an event at CANIS. They're not like. They're just. They're just good comedians for this event. You know, not too brash or rude or anything like that. And a DJ as well.

Of course, you gotta have dancing and music. We're also going to have roundtable discussions each morning where there's going to be 10 to 12 round tables where you can go and sit and discuss things around a certain topic. We have the CANIS Next poster sessions, which I mentioned, so you can go and view scientific submissions from some of the latest research that the scientists are presenting, their posters.

We have the exhibit hall, lots of activities surrounding that. We have at this stage about 55 exhibitors at last count. So quite a few different products and services that you're going to be able to view. So there's tons of things happening all and around the event and that's designed to connect people because it's hard. You sit in a presentation room, you get out in the hallway, like, how do you talk to somebody?

That's why I want to be like, let's get everybody talking and enjoying things. And we got. We have a huge food and beverage budget. Think about if, if you're not familiar with planning conferences, they. The hotels lock you in. They'll be like, okay, if you're going to come in, you got to spend this amount on food and beverage and we'll give you the space for free or whatever.

That's how they make their money. And so we have this monster food and beverage budget. And like, I'm trying to figure out where to spend it all. So people are going to be well fed. We're going to have lots of, you know, good food happening throughout the conference.

Melissa Breau: Yeah, fair enough. I think food can definitely make or break things sometimes. Definitely. Yeah. That's really funny. I have to say.

You mentioned the different music genres at the beginning. It's very tempting to put you on the spot and have you pick a genre for each track, but I won't. So that would be a fun theme, though. It would be. So you kind of mentioned that you kind of partially answered this question in your last answer. But you know, a lot of times people do come to these types of conferences alone and they can feel a little intimidated.

It sounds like you guys have done a lot to try and help folks with that. Do you have any other tips maybe for folks to help them meet people, help them start conversations?

Michael Shikashio: Yeah, you know, I was a hundred percent there in that. In that same place. You know, going back 20 years, I think now is my first conference. It was actually first few conferences I went to, I didn't know anybody.

Zero people. Like, I was just like, I want to be a dog trainer and I should maybe go to a conference. And so I went to Clicker Expo, was my first one, one of the first ones in an IWABC conference. And. And I was super shy and introverted at the time, so I actually, you know, it was tough trying to find those opportunities to speak to people. But the first people I spoke to were actually the speakers.

So that were at the conference. And that's why I love speakers that really like to mingle and socialize because oftentimes the speakers are used to talking to attendees. They get asked a lot of questions, they get stopped in the hallway, that kind of thing. So they're naturally engaging most of the time. Not always, but speakers can be. So I recommend if you, if you're a first time conference goer, you're kind of reserved, go up to a speaker because most of them are very used to it.

They're not going to be like pushing you away or anything like that. So. And engage in conversation. You know, you can just talk about their talk or ask them questions and oftentimes they will introduce you to other people and you can ask them, you know, do you know anybody else here at the conference that I can talk to about this topic or maybe hang out with or whatever?

And a lot of them do know a lot of other people because they've spoken at a lot of conferences or they're in that circuit, right? Yeah. And so I recommend that there's also in the app, there's ways to do meetups. So people. I'm already seeing it in the, it's the Whova app. So Whova is the platform that we're doing the conference on for the live stream as well as the in person.

And there's a community there where you can post like, you know, I want to meet up. Anybody want to meet for, to talk about leash reactivity over coffee. And so there's ways to connect with other conference people there. You can, you can private message anybody that's attending as well. But I recommend, you know, doing that and you're going to find people just like you. That's their first time at a conference, they're shy, they don't have anybody to hang out with.

And that's the way to do it. Just, you know, you just got to take that first step, right. And, and you'll be amazed how fast you start to build these circles. And that's what I love seeing too. You go to these conferences, you start to see the same groups and you're like, oh, they were there, it's all hanging out. And they met at the last one. Right. And so they connect and go to the next one.

And that's really cool because not only are good friendships made, you just get like these connections and it's collaborative you see like beautiful things happen out of that. Like these trainers, they start forming a group about like helping dogs or this non profit or. I've seen so many really cool things happen out of that. So, yeah, it's just, you know, it can be scary at first. Trust me, I get it.

And it can be even scarier going up to a speaker. I think, like the first one was like, it was actually Victoria Stillwell, ABC conference. And she was still, I think her TV show is still going strong. So like everybody was around her, but she was so nice to me. Like I went up to her, I was like, you know, started talking to her and, and that really kind of help open things up.

Like, okay, if somebody like Victoria can talk to me, then like, yeah, I'm just. So it was, it was really nice. So, yeah, go up to speakers and, and you know, most of them, you know, I know a lot of the FDSA folks are really friendly and open. So go up to them, talk to them and, yeah, make connections. We definitely have some true extroverts in our crowd.

That's, you know what's funny? That's true. You know, I wonder if it's a dog sports thing now. You know, I'm thinking of the presenters. There's some that are very introverted and then there's like, I'm thinking, Denise, you can't put her in a room with a stranger. They won't be a stranger for long. Amy cooks the same way, but exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Karen Deeds, they're all like, you know, very talkative.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I think one of the things that, you know, if people haven't already signed up, they may be kind of thinking about or wondering about is the different types of registration options. So, yeah, you know, can you talk a little bit about the difference between attending live, either as an auditor, you know, or a working spot and attending virtually. And then what are those experiences?

Like, what are those like for folks? Yeah, so, so let's start with the base one, which is the, you know, attendee registration in person. Which people are like, oh, do I have to buy a lot of extra stuff? We try to make it as simple as possible. So the registration includes access to the live stream and the recording. So some people are like, I need a break. So they can, you can watch, go to your hotel room and watch some of the live stream.

Right from your hotel room, you get the recordings. Everybody who registers, whether live stream or in person gets the recordings and every ticket option. So, and you can go back and Watch Those and get CEUs and all those things later on. So, so that's the basic in person registration. You can add on the Saturday Night Fever and it's only 25 bucks to do that. And so that's an option as well that you can add on to your registration.

We do have at this point five working spots left. So at the time of this recording, we have five FTSA spots left. We were sold out, come out a couple of weeks into the future. So they may or may not still be available, guys. And you're listening to this. Yeah, which was. We were sold out for a while, but we had a small group that couldn't make it.

So we had some spots open up. So, so there's still five spots available, but that's, that's going to give you access to at least four of the FDSA sessions and probably more like five. But those are the working with your dog and you can take them to any of the FDSA sessions. You also. We also have the opening day workshops. So those are different than the working spots.

And we have some availability left in some of the workshops. So if you want to come a day early with your dog, you can attend those as well. There are some working in some auditor spots. Auditor, which is such a weird word. First time I heard auditor, I'm like, that sounds like taxes or something. For anybody that doesn't know what auditor is, it's you go and you can watch the dogs in the working session.

So you can see that people working with their dogs, you can watch kind of what's going on. I know your crowd knows that, but some of the people listening, totally worth explaining in case they haven't. So anybody can audit the FTSA workshops. You don't need to sign up as an auditor. If you have a basic registration, you can go watch any of the live working sessions. Oh, I forgot to mention the, the lunchtime demos too.

We have folks doing demos during lunchtime on each of the days. We have an FDSA session. We have an NACSW nose work demo. We have the Penn Vet Working Dog center coming in and doing a demo. We have Pocket suite that's also doing a business demo. So we have a bunch of things happening during lunch as well. All right, so going back to the spots, the other two options are of course the CANIS plus option, which I talked about.

That is the most premium one. You get premium seating. You get a super special swag bag. You get to go to those special events, the fire story and play Circles with Patricia McConnell and Dr. Tim Lewis, Sonia and Amanda. So those all come with the CANIS plus option. I think we're like 15 spots left for that. So there's still a few spots if you want the premium option.

And then of course we have the virtual option. So people you can sign up to be going on the live stream that can. That's a great option. Obviously, if it's a, if you're. It's a long way to travel or you're more prefer staying at home and watching these things. But you do get an incredible value for that because you're getting access to 80 present, 80 plus presentations at this point.

And you're just not going to find that anywhere for the price, you know. You know, it's 275 for virtual. You get the recordings, you get to do the live stream, you get access to the community that's within whova. And so it's more than 80 hours. Actually, it's more than that. Geez. So it's like so many hours of recordings for 275, you're just not going to find that anywhere. So. Yeah, so that's the difference in the ticket types and the options for you.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. So this is a huge event. Obviously, I think anybody listening to this is going to come away with that impression. Right. So putting together something of the skill has to have taught you something. Right. So what's something that maybe you've learned about the dog training community and about the different groups that you've involved when creating CANIS that you didn't know when you got started?

Michael Shikashio: You know what I think, because like, what a lot, some people aren't seeing it, but a lot of us are seeing all this conflict and what feels like a lot of fighting on social media. And that's just, that's only, you know, that could just be people seeing it between trainers, but veterinarians see it, shelter people see it, dog sports people see it. Like there's a lot of fighting that happens and it can feel like there's so many people doing that.

But what I've really seen is that the vast majority of us actually don't want to be part of that. We don't want to be part of the fighting. Sometimes it's hard not to. If you're a public face, you got to be involved in it. No matter what you're getting, somebody's going to attack you. But, but as I've been planning this, you know, you see so many more people really hungry for and craving for the opportunity to Leave all of that behind.

Let's go somewhere and just feel the opposite. You know, you feel the love in the room. You feel the atmosphere. You see the smiling faces. You see the collaboration coming together, and you just don't see that online. And what I've realized is that there's. It can feel like the world is falling apart around us in the dog world. And in some ways, yes, there are some things falling apart.

But you realize what I've realized is that it's. It's a small minority that's creating all that noise, and the vast majority want to come to Kanis and want to have that atmosphere of collaboration and. And leaving the drama behind. So I'm really proud of what, you know, CANIS is. Is shaping up to be, because it's not just me. It's. It's all the organizations, you know, that are part of this that also want that same thing.

They want that experience for everybody. They want to get. Put the drama away and come together and collaborate. So. So that's. That's kind of. To answer your question, that's what it's. It's taught me a lot to see the true vibe of the dog world right now. You know, when. When it's. When it's easy to get kind of blinded by the toxicity that can occur. Yeah, yeah. Certainly it can be.

It can feel like the loudest voice in the room. And it's sometimes, you know, good to take a step back and realize that it's, you know, one or two people yelling really loud and not. Not the majority. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when everybody goes home, you know, Kansas is over, they close their laptops for the last time. You know, what, for you personally would make you say, Yep, CANIS was such a success, and it totally accomplished everything I wanted it to accomplish.

You know, I think on a micro and a macro scale there, because even for me, just seeing two people form a relationship and good things come out of it afterwards, that. That enough is a reward for me. It's almost like when I used to do the defensive handling workshops. If it's just one person avoids a dog bite, it feels great. You know, you feel accomplished. And so I see.

I think of that on the micro scale, I love seeing the relationships form. But also on the macro scale, it's what happens afterwards when you have an event like this that's collaborative, sharing ideas, especially about the welfare component. Because on a. On a real massive scale, we want to talk about helping dogs truly, like, really thinking deeply about how do we want to see the future of dogs.

It's, It's. We have to be talking. We have to be talking deeply and getting into crucial conversations about welfare, about ethics, about training approaches, about sheltering, and, you know, everything in between. And so what I hope to achieve or to accomplish is those conversations moving that needle forward, moving us towards betterment for dogs and their people. And I think that can only come through putting people in the same room, even if it's uncomfortable.

You know, uncomfortable conversations can happen. And we don't have to agree with everything anybody's saying all the time. Right? Of course not. But you can't get to that step if we're in silos all the time. So. And if we're having, you know, it's nothing wrong with having our individual conferences or our individual groups and things like that. That's important, too. But let's put them together once in a while so we can get exposure to other mindsets and other ways of thinking when people are still, you know, thinking about dogs.

But we need to think more broadly. And I think the first step is the welfare piece. So hopefully that conversation moves forward. It's not just four days of learning. It's four days of inspiration, collaboration, innovation, you know, all of those things. And that's. Yeah, I'm. Yeah, I'm. I'm excited. I'm excited for that aspect.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. I'm sure the day after the conference, you will also be glad to get some sleep and recuperate a little bit. I don't know what. I don't know what my calendar looks like, but hopefully you've got a couple of days is to decompress, because I'm sure. I'm sure you're going to be crazy leading right up to it, so. But thank you so much for taking some time to chat with me about it, and I'm certainly excited for the conference. I'm glad I get to go this year, and I'm sure lots of listeners are, too. So thank you so much, and I hope to see many of the listeners there.

Michael Shikashio: Me, too.

Melissa Breau: Thank you so much again, Mike. And thank you to all of our listeners and our viewers for tuning in. We'll be back next week, this time with Liz Joyce to talk about the role of handler fitness in dog sports. If you haven't already, subscribe to the podcast in itunes or the podcast app of your choice, or over on YouTube to make sure you never miss an episode, today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy.

Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast music provided royalty free by BenSound.com the track featured here is called Buddy. Audio and video editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in. Happy training.

Credits

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training!